Slippery Rock Gazette

Peter J. Marcucci

Special Contributor

Photos courtesy of Daniel Sinclair

Crossing the George Washington bridge into New York City that morning, all signs pointed to an interview where this month’s featured artist would offer his time—and yours truly would leave with a recording of his life and weave a story. How wrong I was.            

Based in Long Island City, New York, Daniel Sinclair, an established figurative and historic carver, art aficionado and critic, was born into art, and a child prodigy since the 1940s. Throughout his interview, Sinclair, also owner of DMS Studios, not only answered my questions, but generously offered many thought-provoking opinions about modern day versus yesteryear art and craftsmanship, while additionally defining the difference between craftsman and artist. 

With his manic bravado mind-set and unique stylistic exuberance, Sinclair also checked in on his accomplishments and goals, placing the state-of-the-art of media such as stone, bronze, clay, paint and sketch into a context of detail and reality. It is in this realm Sinclair felt most comfortable as he reflected on his feelings of past and present, while bringing clarity to the future of an art form constantly in flux. 

Furthermore, it is Sinclair’s ability to seamlessly move between craftsman and impressionistic artist, while pushing the limits of his skills and style to the edge that has earned him considerable credence within the art community, as well as kept him at the top of his game for decades. 

The icing on the cake during this super engaging interview was that I, the interviewer, became the student, while Sinclair, now the teacher, taught me a few rules of art and how to break those rules to traverse the barriers of the norm into a world of personal expression and interpretation.

When I entered his studio he was working on his latest sculpture, a clay model of a woman. 

“I’ve been carving stone here since 1979. I’ve been very lucky, it’s a good building. Although when I got the building it wasn’t like this, nor was the neighborhood like this. I was able to purchase it because the cost of real-estate here at that time was not that expensive. This same building in Manhattan would have been much more expensive, so this is why I’m here. It’s an ideal little shop to do sculpture and stonework.” 

 

Is your clientele base within close 
proximity? 

“Yes, mostly around here, but also much of it is within the tri-state area. I’ve also done a lot of work in Washington making a couple of interesting projects for the White House. The most interesting project was a carved marble fireplace for the Lincoln bedroom.” 

You have so many works to your credit in stone, bronze and clay. What inspired you to be an artist?

“I have a very strong background in historic styles and decorative arts. My parents were Europeans and I’m first generation American. I had a very indulgent mother who allowed me, and encouraged me, to spend as much time as I wanted in museums around the world. I traveled with her and was exposed to painting and sculpture since childhood. I also had a natural gift for drawing and sketching and had an appetite for these things as a boy, so I studied them very diligently. Lately I’ve been concentrating more and more on doing little figures out of clay and eventually out of terracotta or bronze.” 

Do you do bronzing here or do you send it out?

“I have a foundries I use — I’m not a foundry. That’s a whole different thing, and I use several. There are four or five of them, but I haven’t really landed on one that I’m completely committed to using. Making small figures is very challenging, but it’s the clay model that determines the success of a bronzed piece. 

“The process is called lost wax. It’s a very ancient process that goes back thousands of years. All the little bronze Roman pieces that you see in museums were done this way. They may have not modeled them in clay first; they may have modeled them directly in wax like the ancient near eastern exquisite bronzes from Tibet and Burma and so forth. As far as I know, there are only a few people today that are trying to make bronze figures to scale or none.” 

Changing the subject, Daniel moves and sits at his computer. “Here is an artist I admire very much who recently died. His name is Lucian Freud, grandson of Sigmund Freud. He is a highly sought after painter of the late twentieth century and he did very, very expressive paintings. His paintings today sell for many millions of dollars. Here’s a painting Freud made of Queen Elizabeth, and here is a realistic painting of her that someone else made from a photograph. Can you see the difference in Freud’s interpretation?” he asks. 

Yes!

“How would you describe the difference?”

Well, the facial expression in Freud’s painting looks nothing like the face in the realistic painting. 

“Let’s try and use another language. This is a very generic portrait of somebody, and it’s obviously from a snapshot.” 

It’s British Prime Minister Tony Blair.  

“Yes. Somebody took a photograph of him and then very diligently copied the photograph into a painting. Freud did not work that way. That’s why there are certain distinctive interpretive changes. 

“The whole point of being an artist is how you express yourself, and how you express yourself does not necessarily mean that you are strictly making copies of things. You’re looking at something and you try to express your feelings about it in the work that you’re making. That’s why art that is very strong, evocative and powerful is not merely photographic reproductions. 

“So it’s the same thing with doing what I’m doing here. When I model someone in clay, hopefully, I’m trying to interpret what I see and not just strictly copying what I see. This, is being an artist. 

“Now, if you’re talking about being a craftsman, that’s another story.” Picking up and holding a marble relief sculpture, Daniel continues. 

“This is a reproduction of a relief sculpture called the Pieta, and was very difficult for me to make. Pieta in Italian means pity, and from what I understand, it depicts when Christ descended from the cross and was held by his distraught mother. It’s a very famous and classical subject that has been used in art history for hundreds of years. 

“This replica sculpture is a work of craftsmanship, not a work of art. It is made of Bianco-P marble, a very fine quality Italian marble that has been used for a long time because the fineness of the grain allows you to carve very highly detailed things that other marbles will not. It was such a wonderful piece of sculpture I decided to reproduce it, but it is strictly a bit of craftsmanship, not art.”  

How did you get all the proportions to make something like this accurately. Do you take pictures or take measurements? 

“Are you familiar with the techniques of marble reproduction in stone carving?”

No, not really. 

“Reproductions of stone carvings started with the Greeks and was then perfected by the Romans. The technique employed is taking measurements in three dimensions by a process the Greeks invented called ‘triangulation.’ 

“Triangulation means that you can locate a measurement space in three dimensions. Most people in the world of fabricating, are accustomed to working in two dimensions. The concept of three dimensions is a little harder to work with.”

Fabricators don’t need to work in 3D when we make things like countertops out of slabs.

“Right, but when doing a reproduction you do. 

So when you triangulate, you need to establish three points, and from those three points any measurement can be fixed, and this has been the practice of stone carvers for the last two thousand years. 

“Most sculptors were not Michelangelos, Rodins or Donatellos, they were guys like me working on fireplaces and ornamental carvings. The only thing that was different was that you had a very discerning clientele, and the kind of work done today wouldn’t be acceptable, be it slab work or carving. 

“It’s extraordinary to me that with the technology and wealth we have today, that the general definitions of craftsmanship are so modest, and today’s craftsmanship is not even worth discussing. Most people are very happy with anything as long as they can have it. Many more people can afford many more things, so many more people can sell things. 

“Back in the day, so to speak, you had only a small group of people who could afford anything, so they were very demanding in the quality they requested. Today, the public demands are so modest that ancient skills are irrelevant. Maybe democracy is not conducive to craftsmanship.” 

There must be a small niche?

“Hardly anymore, Pete. It’s becoming less and less. Most of what I concentrate on these days is sculpting in metal or clay. I still exercise my skills in my golden years, but instead of doing it for clientele, I do it for me.”

But does that pay the bills?

“Yes—there are challenges, but I get by.”

Going back to your Mom and your travels with her to museums, is that something you desired to do?

“Yes, and that began at about age 12.”

So you were meant to be an artist from childhood?

“I’ve never done anything else. I was either painting, drawing or carving and don’t recall doing anything else in my life other than some type of artwork. I was not a particularly good student in school. I always had a notebook filled with drawings of Mickey Mouse or caricatures.” 

Did you ever attend any art schools?

“I was born in California a long time ago, and graduated college with a Masters and Bachelor of Fine Arts degree from University of California.” Daniel would not admit to his age but he thinks young and looks great. 

“When I got to New York, I received a Masters Degree in sculpture from Pratt Institute, a well-known architectural and engineering college in Brooklyn, New York. I’m also a recipient of quite a lot of prizes and grants. 

“In the 1960s, I figured I’d go to Italy and pick up all the tricks I needed to come back here and get famous. I was very much affected by sculpture and the achievements of the great sculptors of the past, and it was with enthusiasm that I still thought there might be something to say using stone, so I went to Europe. 

“I landed in a small town in northern Italy named Pietrasanta that had been fabricating stone since Roman times. Within a very short period of time, about two or three months after I arrived, I was apprenticed by two brothers and worked for them for five years. 

“They had very kindly hired me, but really had no need for me—So why would they do this? I thought. Out of generosity I guessed, and the fact that I was also willing to work for free was also nice.” He laughs. 

“I had my Masters Degree with honors and my prizes, and when I went there I quickly realized that I didn’t know anything at all! I really didn’t know anything about sculpture, art or stone, but gradually during the period of years I worked for them, I learned pretty much the way people had learned for the last fifteen hundred years, and what all apprentices went through. 

“I could tell you a cute story. This is an anecdote to give you a sense of the mentality of those days, and I’m sure many people in this country have had many notable moments like this in their careers.

“During the first couple of weeks in the Pietrasanta shop, which by the way had dirt floors, there were some wooden work tables that were very old, and one day the boss said to me, ‘Break them up for use in the potbelly stove for heat. We are going to burn them.’ 

“So, I took them apart and the nails fell on the ground. These were old rusty nails from Roman times! So, I stacked the wood, and the boss came back and he saw the nails on the ground, and he said to me, ‘What about those?’ 

“And I said, ‘What do you mean?’ This is all in Italian, by the way—and he gives me kind of a sour look and says, ‘Pick up all those nails and straighten them up, we’re going to use them.’ 

“He didn’t waste anything! Wood, metal, scraps of stone — anything! And the roof of this building was rotted out and was essentially a falling down stucco shed with a tile roof with trees growing out of it — and it was still being used! This is the world I lived in with quarries, gang saws, air hammers and work benches.”

What was the owner’s name?

“Pasquino Pasquini. His studio was in continuous operation as the McBride studio from about 1850.” 

After your five-year apprenticeship, what then?

“I spent four more years in Italy and accumulated some artwork and had a few shows.  We then came back to the U.S. and had a few shows. My wife and I wanted our daughter to be raised here, and I figured I belonged here rather than Italy.” 

Is your wife from Italy?

“No, no, no, she’s from here.”

So you were married in Italy?

“No, we were married before we went. So, we came back here and had a few shows, and I quickly realized that the world was not waiting for little white marble sculptures, particularly in the United States in the 1980s. So now what do we do? I thought.”

You came back very skilled!

“Yes, but I had no real training doing architectural stone carving. However, the shop next to us in Pietrasanta — that’s what they were doing, making fireplaces. I had seen what they were doing and I realized that if I had the skills to sculpt, then I had the skills to do architectural work. It did have certain challenges that I didn’t know about, and I didn’t understand the geometry.” Pointing to blueprints he continued. 

“For instance, drawing a fireplace like this takes some doing, and in order to execute all the patterns in this mantel takes a pretty high level of drafting skills. 

“I can’t seem to get draftsmen to produce shop drawings of anything as complex as this. I’ve tried to get guys to do drawings of this stuff and, oh my God, it’s more than they want to think about! It’s way, way beyond anybody’s pay grade. 

“I don’t know how you feel about it, but drawings like this would be more than most guys I know would be willing to jump into. Your experience might be different. Is this something that you think would be in the range of most guys?”

No.

“Okay. So some of these other projects that I’ve done, for example this one, a Phaeton fireplace mantel, if you want to talk about craftsmanship, this is a very demanding piece of work.”

You carved this mantel?

“I carved everything. I did the shop drawings, everything. The design came from an architectural book of an eighteenth century mantel and a client said, ‘I want that.’ 

“So, there were many challenges to draw it and make sure it looked right. The second part is how do you construct it in a way that you can make it, and where are the pieces, and how is it divided so you can carve each piece and put it back together? 

“You know that you have to prepare a model of every element and sculpt it out of a small block. You also have to know how it’s going to be assembled, and unless you do it this way, in sections, you can’t do it. You don’t have the time! 

“In Roman times they didn’t do it this way because they had the time, and the blocks they used were much larger. In contemporary times we try to take advantage of the technology that we have. Obviously, if we can find a better way to do it, why kill yourself? So, the most expedient way to do a carved fireplace is to break it up into bite-size pieces so we know we can handle it in the shop.” 

So, you use saws, router bits and profile wheels?

“I use anything, you name it, whatever I can get my hands on I’ll use, however, most of the mechanically driven equipment for this level of work is of very minimal use. For example, to do molding and get some device like a CNC and program it to match a complicated shape — forget it! By the time the programmer programs it, I’ve already finished the fireplace. It’s not an edge to a sink of a counter top. So, this becomes a very complex thing. Most of the time, I just use hammers and chisels. Do you want to see DMS Studios?”

Yes, I want to see DMS Studios! 

“Come on, I’ll show you DMS.” We walked out the office door toward an old wooden workbench full of hundreds of chisels, one hammer and a die grinder — and stopped. 

“This is DMS Studios. This is the whole business,” Daniel says while hand gesturing and looking in another direction towards a forging anvil, torch, drill press, Arri light and various hand tools. 

“That’s it, this is DMS. Here’s a plaster mold of a sculpture I did. This I sculpted in clay. You see these dots, they are points of measurements. I translate these points of measurements into stone. This is triangulation. 

“There’s a measuring device we use with a needle. The needle doesn’t cut or carve anything, it just measures and tells you how far in from the surface of the stone it is to get each of these points.” 

It sounds time consuming.

“That’s why it’s not done anymore and historic carving is not in demand. My training and intention was to be an artist. I had to move side-ways into the fabricating world because I couldn’t make enough money being an artist, and had to use my skills to do business. 

“Since you’re not dealing with a public that demands very much, they’re happy with what they get. You give them a price and something more or less that seems to be okay — great! If the public is happy, you make money — it works for everyone. Artwork is different than craftsmanship. When you’re thinking about artwork you cannot use the same set of values. 

“What has happened, and this is interesting with all precious things, is that people can usually manage to take wonderful, rare treasures and turn them into rubbish. The work of stone had always been only for the very, very rich while everybody else admired it. With human ingenuity and social advancement where it’s not just the few rich on top and many other unprivileged underneath, now, everybody wants these things and you have to equalize it, and it’s no longer anything particularly wonderful and valuable. Stonework, when I started, was a specialty. Now stone is a commodity. I guess it’s the same thing with you.” 

Yes, fabricated stone does seem to be a commodity these days. Where do you buy your chisels and files? 

“All of these chisels were made by me. You can’t go to the art store or go online and buy these, you have to forge them. I spent about 6 months in Europe being a blacksmith.”

Are they made out of high quality steel?

“No, these are all junk steel and not high quality. They are made like they made them in the sixteenth century, and that’s the kind of technology you need to do this kind of work, and not for any kind of romantic reason that I make my own. It’s the shape and the way you handle them, and you’re not going to get those results if you don’t do it this way. 

“If I could buy the tools, I would buy them. I’m not somebody that says working hard is good for the soul. If you can hire it or send it out, I do it!” Now pointing to a far wall with a myriad of plaster fireplace models hanging from hooks, Sinclair continued. 

“These, by the way, are models. For certain very complicated projects you have to create models for the elements that go into the carvings. I model them in clay then cast them in plaster, because I need to have a rigid model to work from. These were plaster details for a fireplace at the White House, so I could have actual sculpted patterns to work from, for authenticity. 

“You really can’t get the quality unless you have something to work from. Modeling like this is not something I’ve invented. It’s been going on for hundreds of years, and if you want to do high-level historic work, you need to be willing to do it this way. 

“Most people don’t need historical authenticity, but the White House did, and it was a very satisfying project because they had requested of me what I was able to give them. The White House gave me a picture and said, ‘Go make it.’ That’s it. 

“So from a photograph, I had to generate a historic reproduction of this fireplace. To do something like this you also have to have a very strong background in the historic styles of furniture and sculpture. You’re not going to be able to do it from a drawing or generating it from a computer, and if somebody hands you a photograph, you’re not just going to make a sketch and think that it’s going to come out right.” 

What president was in the White House at the time?

“It was George W. Bush. What was interesting is that the Bush family was very smart, but it was the Clintons, previously, I believe, who were renting out the bedroom to big campaign donors. You know, you contribute so much to your party and you get to have a night in the Lincoln bedroom at the White House. But the bedroom at that time looked like something out of Howard Johnson’s, so Laura Bush said, ‘Let’s bring it back to its original glory.’ 

“However, it was not originally a bedroom. This was Lincoln’s office during the Civil War, and this room was a pretty big deal because this is where Lincoln made many of his major decisions while the country was at war. So this room had tremendous historic significance, and I was impressed with that.” 

Did it have an existing fireplace?

“It had been a bedroom since the late eighteen hundreds, and at the time had a very simple fireplace made of marble. The photograph that was given to me to use for the fireplace was of an old mantel, and with my intimate knowledge of historic styles and architecture, the mantel I carved is indistinguishable from the picture. 

“Every detail in the way it’s made is indistinguishable from something from the nineteenth century.” 

Do you ever age your work with oil or dirt?

“No, it’s always so obvious, and any knowledgeable person will recognize this. When a piece is covered with grime and dirt you know it’s a fake. It’s like putting a big sign on it saying ‘FAKE!’ 

“So, when customers ask me for things like that, I tend to discourage them, and fortunately I’ve never had to do it. I know how to do it if it needs to be done, but I always try to discourage this because it’s so phony. The execution and overall design is what tells the authenticity of the piece.” 

Do you have a favorite artist or type of art?

“Japanese art is fantastic. So much of what they did and their level of craftsmanship is amazing. They had the patience for detail. There were many interesting periods in Japanese art, and one of them I found interesting was in the late 19th century when Japan was facing very strong commercial, technological and cultural challenges from the West. 

I think in the 1860s they had voted out the Shoguns and the futile empire, and established some kind of representative or quasi representative government and prohibited the traditional purposes of the Samurai. The Samurai were basically paid mercenaries for powerful families, but one of the things that stimulated Japanese craftsmanship were the accoutrements of these solders. Working metal, lacquer, bronze and ceramics were directly related to the fitting out of these men in their armor and weapons. The level of skill was astounding! 

“So, after the closing of this period they had all these craftsmen that were unemployed — kind of like me! They had a high level of skill, but now what do they do with it? 

“So, the government began to encourage using these skills for commercial efforts. One of the things they encouraged was the development of cloisonné enamel. The word, cloisonné, is French and means little cells, and in this specialized area you had maybe four artists that worked in these modest areas and together, would spend two years to make a little vase 3 inches tall. 

“I think this type of art began in the Middle East and then went to China and then gradually went to Japan. It is still being done today, but it’s one of those things that have again been cheapened and turned into bric-a-brak, however, the ones made by the Japanese during this period are extremely valuable. I know of no one at this time that makes cloisonné to that level of compulsion. Back then, that was your life’s work.” 

Yes, there was no radio, no television, no video games — nothing to distract you from your work! 

“Yes. I also think the level of pay was very low during those years, and all these things are interrelated. I suppose that if people still have these innate capacities, and if the demand ever returned, it’s still within our ability. 

“So there’s a certain kind of logic that occurs in this type of pre-twentieth century art and design, and when you see modern reproductions that are now made in Asia, the differences are so large that they are not even speaking the same language for the most part. They don’t really understand the language of the work that they are trying to execute, and the clientele is not either discerning or the price is so attractive, that they don’t care — after all, it’s just a fireplace, etc., so why make a such big deal? You get my point?”

So, what does the future hold for you and DMS Studios?

“Hopefully, I will find interesting and challenging projects to do. There are some historic stone projects lurking out there that I’m bidding on that will require a substantial amount of stone carving, but I won’t know for sure until I hear back.” 

Any words of wisdom for our readers looking to do sculpture or historic reproductions?

“You don’t ask easy questions. Goodness gracious! If you want to be an artist or a craftsman of any kind, I think much of your success is based upon the ability to draw. Without drawing, I think that you’re handicapped to express yourself. 

“Drawing is very direct, and the more freedom you have to express yourself the better, and if you don’t have the means to communicate with people, you won’t do as well. So, the more drawing comes naturally to you, the more able you are to express yourself whether it is decorative art or decorating a room, and if you want to do the work that I do, it is essential. 

“One more thing. That interesting event that happened when that wonderful lady (Diana Nyad) swam from Cuba to the United States? She’s 64 years old and it was her 5th or 6th try after failing all the other times. Now, that is a wonderful example of perseverance!” 

For more information, visit Daniel Sinclair’s website at www.dmsstudios.com .

Peter J. Marcucci has over 25 years of fabrication experience in the stone industry. Send your comments to our Contacts page .